they are known for a compression technologies that make the web surfing faster. if the user experience of blackberry 10 and developers don't get excited about the next platform, then they are toast. david: one thing they have surprised me about iphone or about apple in general, is they haven't taken advantage of the problems that rimm has to get into the business market. they are so focused on getting the new jazzy thing for the consumer, rather than the business user, that they haven't tried to invade that market. does that surprise you? >> yes, to a certain degree. i think mostly on the ipad they are making a lot more inroads than they are with the iphone. iphone is sort of still a back door sort of deployment. i think once -- sort of microsoft might wind up helping apple in the sense that a lot of people think they are developing office for ios. if that comes out, i think a lot of people will turn towards ios. liz: you make a great point about security. that's why security authorities in the united states, federal government uses blackberry. >> that's right. l